{"id":17751,"date":"2021-07-07T09:05:00","date_gmt":"2021-07-07T07:05:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/?p=17751"},"modified":"2025-01-06T19:28:41","modified_gmt":"2025-01-06T18:28:41","slug":"macht-sprache-a-discussion-with-mirjam-nuenning-and-dr-michaela-dudley-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/2021\/07\/07\/macht-sprache-a-discussion-with-mirjam-nuenning-and-dr-michaela-dudley-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"macht.sprache.: A discussion with Mirjam Nuenning and Dr. Michaela Dudley (part 2)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

On 19 May 2021, we got to hear from Dr. Michaela Dudley and Mirjam Nuenning about their thoughts on translating politically sensitive language. You can find recording of the event here<\/a><\/em>. The event was a part of our macht.sprache. project, which is supported by the Berlin Senate, and which you can also check out here<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mirjam Nuenning<\/strong> is a freelance translator of English-language Afro-diasporic literature, as well as founder of the Afro-diasporic kindergarten Sankofa in Berlin. After spending several years in Washington D.C., where she successfully completed studies at the prestigious Howard University \u2013 a Historically Black University), she now lives and works in Berlin. Her translations include “the things I am thinking while smiling politely” and “Synchronicity” by Sharon Dodua Otoo, and “Kindred-Verbunden” by Octavia Butler.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Dr. Michaela Dudley<\/strong>, a Berlin trans* woman with Afro-American roots, is a multilingual columnist, cabaret artist, keynote speaker and a lawyer. In addressing structural problems such as racism, misogyny and homo\/transphobia, her focus is on diversity and language.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We\u2019re publishing a transcript of the discussion in two parts. This is the second. You can find the first here<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Please note that, given the nature of the issues discussed, some sensitive terms come up in the course of the conversation.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Lucy of poco.lit. (LG): <\/strong>Michaela, I\u2019ve heard you speak beautifully about the importance of intersectionality, and how this is a significant part of your world view and activism. Could you maybe tell us a bit about what you think an intersectional approach to politically sensitive translation might need to take into account?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Michaela Dudley (MD):<\/strong> Intersectionality gives me insight into so many areas. I didn\u2019t come into the world with intersectional thinking, it\u2019s like my coming out. It occurred in a sequence of different stages in my life, in my own awareness. To give a little historical perspective, I was born in 1961, in the same year in which, here in Berlin, the Berlin Wall was built. I was born in the United States, but it seems that for most of the six decades of my life, I\u2019ve been trying to break through walls myself \u2013 using my head sometimes. And you need aspiration to do that (you also need Aspirin). Breaking through barriers linguistically as well. I began learning German at a very early age because my father had \u2013 when he was a kid in the States, born in 1917 \u2013 when he started school, German was the first foreign language that people learnt.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I spent part of my youth in Germany; had different family members who served in Germany. I was listening to German radio in the States, as I was to the BBC for that matter, with my shortwave. My contact with the German language began rather early.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, I was born in 1961, and if you look at my birth certificate, it has the name that was assigned to me at birth, including the designation Roman Catholic, and after that, it says: N***o. N***o didn\u2019t bother anyone at the time. It was a normal word Blacks used to refer to themselves. It was not offensive. It was in the names of different organisations, institutions, and activities: The N***o Baseball League, for example, or the concept of N***o spirituals. It was a decent way of referring to Black people \u2013 and it\u2019s still on my birth certificate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Then you have the activism of the 60s and 70s, which I lived through, and you see the emergence of the word \u2018Black\u2019. In the 50s, so shortly before I arrived, referring to people as Black was considered not too fine. \u201cThey\u2019re coloured\u201d was more likely \u2013 because they\u2019re not white<\/em>. N***o was an accepted name. So, ironically, the German N-word, with 5 letters, was actually based on the English N***o. If a German wanted to, for whatever reason, insult you as a Black person, he would use the English 6-letter word \u2013 which is definitely an insult coming from a white <\/em>person. An insult either way, unless you\u2019re a multimillionaire Black rap musician with entitlement to use that term in every line.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The German 5-letter word for N***o was quite acceptable, and you heard and saw people using that word routinely in the 1990s and the 2000s, and of course, we know, even in the 2020s it comes into play. But it\u2019s very harshly criticized in the meantime. If you say N***o in the United States, people will look at you funny, and they\u2019ll know what you\u2019re trying to communicate, but it doesn\u2019t scar their soul in the same way the 6-letter word does.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In German, you see more deference to politically sensitive language by virtue of people saying, \u201cLet\u2019s not use that 5-letter N-word anymore.\u201d There\u2019s a movement towards that, but wherever there\u2019s a movement, there\u2019s a counter-movement. Those on the right, those who are truly racist, enjoy using that 5-letter N-word because they can essentially communicate the 6-letter N-word \u2013 since now the 5-letter N-word in German is taboo.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m currently writing an English-language novel about South Africa, and of course, terms like \u2018coloured\u2019 in South Africa were very well-established, as a means of distinguishing from Black. \u2018Coloured\u2019 was one small step before rock bottom. Then there\u2019s the issue of Afrikaans, the language of the white <\/em>Dutch settlers, and the Afrikaans equivalent for the N-word, and that\u2019s the K-word. This word appears in my novel. It\u2019s an historical novel; it has an historical context, but also a contemporary one. I briefly asked myself, am I entitled to use that? I\u2019m a novelist, it\u2019s my story, I can say whatever the hell I want. Am I entitled also as a Black person to use that word? Should I not be more conscious of what it can cause? Or should I say: \u201cIt\u2019s there, it\u2019s coming out of the mouth of an identifiably racist person \u2013 I\u2019m simply portraying the situation that exists.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In Germany, I write for several papers. I know my white <\/em>brothers and sisters are quite careful. There was one situation where I wanted to use the 6-letter N-word in an article about racism. The term was \u2018house N-word\u2019, to attack people who are Uncle Toms. They said I couldn\u2019t use that; I said, \u201cI\u2019m Black. I\u2019m trying to criticise racism here and I\u2019m trying to reclaim the word and turn it around.\u201d And they said that using that word would get us in trouble, because it triggers something in people. We settled on another word: token. It doesn\u2019t have the same strength. It\u2019s not as ugly. It doesn\u2019t rip away the flesh of your soul.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But I accepted it because I knew there would have been an uproar. Sometimes, as a Black person, I want to use that word because I know how much it hurts, and I want to convey that. And that\u2019s kind of a dilemma.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

LG:<\/strong> Mirjam, in the foreword of Kindred<\/em>, you give insight into many of the considerations that went into your translating decisions. One of the things you describe doing is sourcing input from over 50 people with experiences of racism on how to tackle the use of the N-word in the translation. I wonder if you could tell us a bit about this process, about the input you received and what you learnt from it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mirjam Nuenning (MN):<\/strong> In translating Kindred<\/em>, it was a big issue, because the N-word was used a lot of times throughout the book, and the book was published by a publisher that specifically wanted to not reproduce stereotypes, racism, and discrimination. But here we were: a book written by a Black woman who was specifically using this word, not just to describe Black people \u2013 that would have been easy, we could have just replaced it with Black \u2013 but she was specifically using this word because she wanted to show the horror and the trauma that racism caused: the physical abuse, the linguistic abuse, the emotional abuse, the sexual abuse. She was using this word as one example of the many horrors that enslaved Black people had to go through.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I wanted to use the N-word. It\u2019s interesting that you talk about the 5-letter and the 6-letter N-word, Michaela, because that\u2019s exactly the issue we ran into. We kept talking about the N-word, and I kept saying, \u201cBut there are two.\u201d  We never really resolved that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We decided to invite some other Black people who were living in the German-language context and ask them: \u201cHow would you feel if we spelled this word out, what are your thoughts on this?\u201d We received very different responses. Some people said, \u201cplease don\u2019t write it out, it\u2019s just going to retraumatise me.\u201d Some people said we should write it out, there\u2019s a reason why this author chose to use this word and she\u2019s not just using it to describe a Black person, she\u2019s using it to give an example. We got very different responses, also in terms of whether people grew up in Germany, or in the States, or in France. People felt very different about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For myself, I can say I also have a very different relationship to the N-word. I spent a lot of time living in the States, living in D.C., which is majority Black, going to a Black university. I have a very different experience when it comes to the N-word \u2013 the 6-letter N-word even \u2013 than some people who\u2019ve only been in the German context and who\u2019ve had to fight against the 5- and the 6-letter N-words all of their lives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We got all of these responses; we had long discussions within the publishing company, and we decided to spell out the 6-letter N-word, but leave it in English, meaning we left the lower-case n <\/em>and we didn\u2019t add the female ending when someone was referring to a woman. We left it in English, that was our solution for the 6-letter N-word. For N***o and \u2018coloured\u2019, I left those terms in English, because there is no translation for N***o and there is no translation for \u2018coloured\u2019 that is okay. Because N***o and \u2018coloured\u2019, as Michaela was sharing, at some point in history, were actually used and embraced by Black people to describe themselves in the States. And in Germany, that never happened. No Black person ever referred to themselves as \u2018farbig\u2019 or the other N-word, which I can\u2019t even say in German.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We just had to get creative and think about why she\u2019s using it, what is the history, here and there, associated with different terms to describe Black people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

LG:<\/strong> Given the extremely different discursive contexts that are built around a lot of politically sensitive terminology, it relatively often seems to be the case that keeping the English term in German-language texts and conversations comes up seeming to be the best solution. But are there any problems with it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

MD:<\/strong> I certainly prefer to use certain terms, like \u2018woke\u2019 in English. My personal preference is to put them in italics and then to try to squeeze in the approximate German translation of it. I don\u2019t want to appear to be condescending; I want to be inclusive actually. When you start throwing around these terms, you get people who agree with you on the issues, but maybe they don\u2019t know the exact definitions of the terms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

At the same time, as Mirjam has pointed out, there are restrictions, there are limitations there. You can\u2019t import a word, inject it into the other language and just leave it there. You have to think about, as I always do, for whom is this literature primarily intended, and, when it\u2019s journalism, what could it possibly result in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

MN:<\/strong> In terms of leaving certain words in English, and that it also carries the risk of excluding people or even, looking at English as a colonizing language \u2013 I agree with that, and at the same time, the reason why I sometimes find myself leaving words in English or preferring to do that, is that there are no better suited words in German oftentimes. The discourse in the German-speaking world on issues like race, gender, intersectionality, diversity, is relatively new. There\u2019s a little bit more history, and a little bit more discourse behind all of these conversations in English, which is why it\u2019s easier sometimes to use the English terms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Until we find better words, better suited words in German, I would prefer using the English terminology. An added benefit is that if we use a common language, it can also serve as a unifying force in the resistance movements across the world, in terms of fighting the patriarchy and racism, and so on.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The second part of the transcript from our discussion with Dr. Michaela Dudley and Mirjam Nuenning that took place on 19 May 2021.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":17743,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[143,2480],"tags":[523,2590,2735,2736],"class_list":["post-17751","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interview","category-macht-sprache","tag-case-sensitive","tag-macht-sprache-en-2","tag-michaela-dudley-en","tag-mirjam-nuenning-en"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17751","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=17751"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17751\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":18351,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17751\/revisions\/18351"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/17743"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=17751"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=17751"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=17751"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}