{"id":14429,"date":"2020-04-25T13:33:00","date_gmt":"2020-04-25T11:33:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/pocolit.uber.space\/?p=14429"},"modified":"2022-07-29T17:11:33","modified_gmt":"2022-07-29T15:11:33","slug":"intersectionality-as-a-practice","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/2020\/04\/25\/intersectionality-as-a-practice\/","title":{"rendered":"Intersectionality as a Practice: an Interview with Emilia Roig"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Emilia Roig, founder of the Center for Intersectional Justice<\/a>, discusses with poco. lit. what it means to do intersectionality work in Europe and particularly in Germany.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

What is intersectionality? Could you give the definition of intersectionality that the Center for Intersectional Justice (CIJ) works with?<\/strong><\/h5>\n\n\n\n

Our working definition\nof intersectionality is very simple. We say that intersectionality is about\nfighting discrimination within discrimination, protecting minorities within\nminorities and tackling inequalities within inequalities. What this really\nmeans is that we are looking at inequalities within categories that are usually\nseen as monolithic and homogeneous. For example, we look at inequalities\nbetween women, we look at inequalities within the group of migrants, within the\ngroup of People of Color, within the group of people with disabilities, within\nthe LGBTQI community. We look at patterns of discrimination within those\ncategories. That means we have a multi-dimensional perspective towards social\ninequalities and discrimination. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

What does CIJ do?<\/strong><\/h5>\n\n\n\n

CIJ is an advocacy\norganization that aims to reclaim the concept of intersectionality and to\nrefill it with its political meaning. That is something that I find important\nbecause intersectionality has been used a great deal in institutions that\nreplicate the status quo \u2013 or at least ensure that it remains as it is. This\nerases the subversive nature of intersectionality, and of race<\/em> in a European context. CIJ aims to infuse that political\nmeaning of intersectionality in such institutions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Our work is organized\naround three pillars: advocacy, research and trainings. We work at various\nlevels and with various sectors. We also speak in established, high-level\ninstitutions like the European Commission or the European Parliament.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Intersectionality, similar to the term diversity, is sometimes criticized for having become too fashionable and therefore devoid of meaning. What would you tell critics about why it is a useful concept to think with? How can intersectionality be applied? <\/strong><\/h5>\n\n\n\n

There are academic\ncritics who say intersectionality is very useful, and who try to find out what\nelse it can do. Then, there are critics from the mainstream who say that\nintersectionality is divisive or that it is not applicable in real life; that\nit is reinforcing identity politics. This is true to some extent: it is\nreinforcing identity politics, but I don\u2019t see identity politics as a bad thing\nin the first place. It is an important stage in the dismantlement of systems of\noppression. At some point, we hope to not need identity politics anymore \u2013 that\nwe will indeed transcend identity. The problem is that many of these mainstream\ncritics haven\u2019t wrapped their heads around intersectionality. They criticize it\nfrom a place of unexamined assumptions about and projections of what it\nactually is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Intersectionality can\nbe used in many different ways, which is where its strength and power lie. It\nis a policy tool, it is a legal analysis tool, a sociological perspective. It\nis an empowerment device; it is so many things at the same time. It can also be\nused at different levels, for law and policy-making. It can be used in\ncommunities; it can be used for social movements, coalitions, solidarity and\nalso at the individual level to better understand one\u2019s position \u2013 and for\nempowerment purposes. Contrary to what some people say about intersectionality\nbeing a nice idea in theory but not working in practice, intersectionality is<\/em> a practice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Does the definition of intersectionality change\nwith context? Why is it particularly valuable to think about intersectionality\nand apply it in the German context? Are the challenges you face in your work\ndifferent in Germany to elsewhere?<\/strong><\/h5>\n\n\n\n

Yes, definitely. Let\u2019s speak about Germany. Because race is unspeakable in German (\u2018Rasse\u2019), I tend to say the word \u2018Race\u2019 instead. It stumbles against less resistance than I thought, because every time I say it, I\u2019m also explaining why it\u2019s important and why it needs to be said, and why it\u2019s important to continue to think in racial terms in German. As long as there will be racism, we will need to talk about race. There is an illusion of living in a post-racial era in Germany, which makes it very difficult to speak about social inequalities from a racial angle, although we continue to use proxies such as ethnicity, religion, culture and migration. These proxies are heavily racialized in the German context, and generally in Europe. But it creates divisions within racial minorities, giving the illusion that every group is affected by very different dynamics when in fact it\u2019s the same: it\u2019s still white supremacy. And so I would say that intersectionality here in Germany has been mobilized without race, and that\u2019s highly problematic, because race is central to the emergence of intersectionality. Without race there would be no intersectionality; race is its raison d\u2019\u00eatre.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To\nfollow up on this: do you find that in your experience of using specific\nterminology there have been changes, perhaps specifically in Germany? We\nnoticed that there have been so many more books, also in German, published by\nBlack German activists, a lot of them women.<\/strong><\/h5>\n\n\n\n

Yes, definitely, change is happening, so\nthat\u2019s the good news. I tend to see the resistance \u2013 AFD, Trump and all the\nconservative right-wing voices and movements \u2013 as a hiccup in history. They see\nwhat\u2019s happening and think: this cannot be, we need to do everything in our\npower to avoid this change. But change is taking place. So it\u2019s no more than an\nexpression of the change that is <\/em>taking\nplace. Otherwise they wouldn\u2019t be so scared. There would be nothing to resist. <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In Germany, it\u2019s happening too. It\u2019s almost\nheart-warming (but that would be too generous a word) to see that even\nestablished white people are thirsty for, are ready for that change. For\ninstance, I\u2019ve been asked to be in the German Nonfiction Book Prize jury this\nyear. I\u2019m the only Person of Colour, of course, but I\u2019m there. And they wanted\nme to be there. I didn\u2019t apply. They contacted me. So change is happening.\nAnother example is that I was also in the selection committee of the EU funding\nprogrammes for diversity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Even if it can sometimes come from a place\nof tokenism: knowing too well that an all-white jury is no longer credible in\n2020. Maybe that\u2019s the reason they invite me, but I won\u2019t let myself be used as\na token. I have things to say and interests to represent. I make sure that\nquestions of oppression, racism, power, and privilege are a part of the\nselection process.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What would you have ordinary people do to\nparticipate in the work you do, if you would have them contribute? What is your\nposition on the role of the structurally privileged in contributing to this\nwork?<\/strong><\/h5>\n\n\n\n

Providing a space and\na platform to speak about the work of CIJ is tremendously helpful. Also, people\nwho recommend us, who talk about us, who follow us on social media, who engage\nwith us \u2013 that is helpful. Generally, I think that\u2019s the most help that we\u2019ve\nreceived so far: people being behind us, carrying us to more places, and making\nsure that we get access.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Emilia Roig is the director and founder of the Centre for Intersectional Justice. She holds a PhD in political science, and two Masters degrees: one in public policy and an MBA in international law. Prior to founding CIJ, Roig worked extensively on human rights issues, mostly in international institutions in the so-called development industry, for the UN and GIZ in Cambodia and East Africa.<\/em> 2021, she published her book<\/em> Why We Matter: The End of Oppression<\/a> (in German)<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A longer version of the interview can be found in the edited volume<\/em> The minor on the move: Doing cosmopolitanisms<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Emilia Roig, founder of the Centre for Intersectional Justice, discusses with Poco. Lit. what it means to do intersectionality work in Europe and particularly in Germany.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":14844,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[143,152],"tags":[147,144],"class_list":["post-14429","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interview","category-interview-3","tag-center-for-intersectional-justice","tag-interview"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14429","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/7"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=14429"}],"version-history":[{"count":13,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14429\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":18136,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14429\/revisions\/18136"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/14844"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=14429"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=14429"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pocolit.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=14429"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}